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Talk:Hero of Time 87/Archive 1

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Cloak of invisibility

You might want to leave a comment at Forum:Invisibility Cloak (Deathly Hallows) of Cloak of invisibility?, as you were the one that changed it in the first place.--Matoro183 (Talk) 22:21, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

HBP reffing

Okay, I fixed the ref tags for you - basically, you were coding all the ref names as "spoiler", which you shouldn't do. Each ref should have its own unique ref name to avoid it "calling" for another ref tag with the same name. However, if you're only using the reference tag once, you don't need to use a ref name tag, you can simply use <ref> and </ref> to open and close the tags. I hope that makes sense .... - Cavalier One(Wizarding Wireless Network) 18:10, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much Cavalier, and yes I do now. I'm unfamiliar with coding, so I appreciate your help. I also discovered that Marvolo and Morfin are also in the film, though they have not revealed who is playing them yet.Hero of Time 87 18:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Helga Hufflepuff's cup

If it is not an official picture it has to be deleted. the policy says: "We do not entertain any fan fiction, images, or ramblings (collectively "fanonsense")" if this image isnt made by Warner Bros,JKR or any of the publishers it has to go. Me_Potter_Fan (Talk) 06:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I found it on an official site discussing the film. It IS an official picture, I just don't remember exactly which site it was. It had several other pictures from the film. There is no reason to delete it. Hero of Time 87 06:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Please look through your browser history to locate the website so that I can see that it's official or not. Me_Potter_Fan (Talk) 06:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Our work computers are heavily fortified. They disabled the history feature of our computers for security measures long before I began working here. That's why I sent the picture to myself before I had to leave for a conference later yesterday afternoon. I really wish I could remember the site because it had others I hadn't previously seen from the film itself. Hero of Time 87 11:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

We will give you a few days to find a source to this image and if you don't it will be deleted. Me_Potter_Fan (Talk) 12:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Delete it if you want, I could care less. I only found it because I had some extra time on my hands yesterday, but as with most people, I also have a job to do. I will try to re-locate it again later if I have some extra time, but I'm not going to make it the biggest priority since it's only a mere image, not a disputed interview. If you are that obsessive that you absolutely have to have a source, then search through the recent magazine articles because that's where it was. But if you want to delete something that most other sources haven't yet taken hold of, then go ahead. I only went to the trouble of getting it here so this wiki would have something most other sources don't yet have. But later on, when the image becomes more public, it will not be my fault that it was removed despite its authenticity. I personally think you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill, when I see many other images here that aren't always official images. I'm the one that took the trouble to get it here, so I think I've done my duty and I did it out of goodwill for the wiki. I consider it an act of rudeness however when someone does not appreciate the effort though and tries to negate it over nothing; it makes one not even want to take the time to help improve the wiki anymore for lack of appreciation. Hero of Time 87 12:46, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Please, calm down. Now you are the one being rude. It is in our policy that an image has to be sourced. "We do not entertain any fan fiction, images, or ramblings (collectively "fanonsense")". That was from HPW:POLICY. Me Potter Fan was being a good user, he was just trying to follow our policy. If you are not going to find a source then please, drop the issue. Thanks. -- Freakatone Talk 13:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

There is no "issue" here, merely someone trying to remove a good picture that I took the trouble to get here from an actual article I viewed yesterday. Not every image on this wiki is what I'd call "official," so I don't think there is much argument here to remove the picture. If that's what you guys want, go for it. But if that's the case, then I'm not inclined to devote much future effort to improving the wiki if the effort is not going to be appreciated. Hero of Time 87 13:25, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, most, if not all of our images are official. What images do you see that are "unofficial"? And by the way, it is not rude to follow a policy that has already been put into place. -- Freakatone Talk 13:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

You call the drawing of the ring an official Warner Bros. picture? You call the picture from the cover of Deathly Hallows an actual Warner Bros. picture of the locket? No, none of those were actual real-life pictures. And yes, forgive me but it is rude when your efforts are disregarded over something that is really not a very big issue. Hero of Time 87 13:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, they are official pictures. And how can something in harry potter be "real-life"? It's a fictional book... -- Freakatone Talk 13:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually Freakatone, they are not official "movie" pictures. Pictures like this one and Tom Riddle's Diary are in fact "real-life" objects that were used in the films and are more commonly associated with what the objects look like by most fans of the series. I see nothing wrong with the image staying, if nothing else to give viewers an idea of what the cup will end up looking like. TomMarvoloRiddle1926 13:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Images don't have to be from a movie. They are from the cover of one of the books. The books are definately endorsed by J.K. Rowling, so yes, actually they are official images. -- Freakatone Talk 13:39, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Actually, most people that aren't in on the books solely focus on the films and relate more to them. They are going to recognize a real-life object they saw in the film much better than a drawing they've never seen before. No matter how you spin it, those images are not official "movie" pictures. They are official as far as the books go, yes, but not with the films. And the films are more widely known to the general public than the books because not everyone reads. TomMarvoloRiddle1926 13:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
The books take precedence over the films on this wiki. -- Freakatone Talk 13:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Please just accept that the image will be deleted if it doesnt get sourced. Me_Potter_Fan (Talk) 13:45, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
On content, not images. People more closely associate with films as far as images go, because not everyone reads the books or sees the drawings in them. And MPF, please just accept that there are instances where you guys could end up driving people away from this wiki because of the overreaction I'm seeing here. I don't blame Hero for being upset really. TomMarvoloRiddle1926 13:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Please, drop the issue. If you have a problem with our policy, discuss it on the policy's talk page. Thanks. -- Freakatone Talk 13:50, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't see an issue beyond what Hero calls a "pet peeve." I have no problem whatsoever, it's fully between him and you guys, but I can see some points in his argument as well. You guys can no more prove that this picture is "not" from the film than anyone else. I think it's a good image personally and see nothing wrong with it being there for the time being since we don't have an image for it otherwise. And I think there are instances where we should be a bit more flexible as far as attracting members to come back to the wiki or bring in new ones. This kind of behavior can turn people off. TomMarvoloRiddle1926 13:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind support TMR, I do appreciate it. It's up to all of you guys whether or not you want to keep the image, I merely added it because I was excited to get a first glimpse of it. However, the treatment I've received in return for my efforts does indeed prompt me to leave the wiki entirely if the effort is unappeciated. Hero of Time 87 13:58, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Hero, we appreciate your efforts. All we're trying to do is make sure that this is an actual image. Is that so bad? -- Freakatone Talk 14:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
It's not bad at all Freakatone, but the way in which you guys are doing it does turn one off. I respect that you are trying to follow procedure, but sometimes as we've seen many times, procedure is not always what's best for everyone involved. There was no picture at all before I found this one. I told you guys that I found it amongst other production photos from the film, but I am not sure how to get back to the article it was in. Is it really so bad to have an image to at least stand-in until we have one from in-film? Hero of Time 87 14:02, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I've said this once, and i'll say it again. If you have a problem with the policy, discuss it on the policy's talk page. Thanks. -- Freakatone Talk 14:05, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
This is not about policy, it's about appearance. I was always taught that having "something" is far better than having "nothing." I have no problems with any "policy" but rather the appearance. I only want to improve the appearance of the article, and this image was indeed amonst other photos from the production of Half-Blood Prince. If you guys want no picture at all for the article, fine. But I would think you guys would want at least something to liven up the article, and the possibility of having an image of the cup that other sites don't yet possess is also attractive to me anyway. Hero of Time 87 14:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
As I've said before, my fellow admins and I will discuss this later today. I will let you know the results of the discussion. But for now, please, drop the issue. -- Freakatone Talk 14:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
That's fine. Hero of Time 87 14:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

So...I've read over most of the dicussion involving this and I have a few points I would like to make.

  1. First, Me Potter Fan is "right" to ask for a source from that image. According to our policy we do not accept Fanon onto the wiki. This is also expanded upon in the Canon policy. So if the picture of the cup is not from a book/movie/game/Trading Card/etc. it will be deleted. If you feel this is bad policy then please do as Freakatone suggested and use the policy talk page.
  2. Next, I understand it is not always easy to find where you have been before. Do you have any information at all about the site? The original file name, anything that could help us find the location?
  3. Thirdly, I'm not sure how all this became skewed to people not "appreciating" each other's contributions but I am 100% positive that no one is trying to be unappreciative. I know for a fact that we all appreciate all the work each other does in making this wiki more accurate and comprehensive. Along with this in particular I will point out that Me Potter Fan is not being rude by asking for a source for the image, merely inquisitive and covering all the bases.
  4. If there are "many other images here that aren't [...] official" it would be good to bring them to the attention of someone who can delete them since they should not be here (as explained in my first point). I know a few months ago we went through and deleted a whole bunch of images that were fan drawn, etc. but it is possible we missed some. Along with this I will define "official" (as it should be used in this discussion -- and where I think a lot of this misunderstanding comes from). "Official" (as Me Potter Fan, Matoro183, Freakatone and I use it) is referring to Canon, meaning from the books, movies, games, trading cards,, and a few other places. This somehow got changed to "official movie" pictures, it was never meant to be used that way.
  5. I will concede that visitors will associate with pictures from the movie more than drawn images from the books, look at articles such as Harry Potter or The Burrow, the main image is from the films, not drawn images. But a photo should only be used if it is from a valid canon source.
  6. "Procedure" may not always be best for all involved, but its generally the best way to deal with something in most situations and is something convenient and familiar to fall back upon. I'm not really sure which part of this has "turned you off" initially since, in my opinion, the discussion really has not contained personal attacks or anything. I'm not really sure why you would be feeling "unappreciated" either. But regardless, what in particular about our system would you say is broken and can be improved? Any suggestions would be helpful.
  7. "Something" might be far better than "nothing," in some situations but if the "something" contains only false information then "nothing" is in fact better.

Please try to remain civil and calm during this conversation. We're all trying to accomplish the same goals and it would be much better if we helped each other instead of everyone pulling in a different direction. I'll be watching this page and anyone can reply here with questions, comments, etc. and hopefully I'll have a change to reply soon. Once again I just urge everyone to keep a cool head, there's no reason to be yelling at each other over something silly like this. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 21:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest not threatening delete a person's work right off the bat and degrading it, which in turn make one feel unappreciated. I would suggest more "civil" behavior and negotiating from the get-go. And precisely this is silly to even argue about because it's only a picture, and I see no reason to make a big issue about it. I found it in an article discussing the film along wih several other pictures from the film's production but am not sure how to get back to it now. I wanted to make sure I go the picture of the cup at least to the wiki before I had to leave for a conference. I see no reason to delete the picture though because "some" picture is better than "no" picture, especialy when there's the possibility this is the one they used in the film. Hero of Time 87 00:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that if a pic is released that is going to be in the film, it would appear on mugglenet or some other major site, not just in one place.--Matoro183 (Talk) 01:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Not really, because those are fan sites too. There are several pictures that have been revealed via magazine and newspapr that don't always appear on those sites. Hero of Time 87 01:31, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Where did I threaten? I simply stated a fact in accordance to our policy. I am being civil, Freakatone, Me Potter Fan, Matoro183 have all been civil, TomMarvoloRiddle1926 has been civil. There is absolutely no reason to get defensive. It is certainly possible that the picture would not be on MuggleNet, etc. Anyway, is there any information you can give us about how you found it? Were you searching for a particular thing? What search engine were you using? Anything? More people looking for it is better than just one. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 03:49, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I found it when I was researching the new film, Half-Blood Prince. I was searching for updates on the film, and it was on Yahoo. Several pages down, I came across a site that had a magazine article discussing facts and objects to know for the upcoming movie. It was within that article that I stumbled across a picture of the cup I had previously not seen, and I instantly tried to send it to my computer back home because I was at work and had a conference to attend in just a few minutes time. There were several other new images from the film I had not previously seen and many new things cofirmed to be in the film some had not thought would be in it before. But I had been searching for about an hour when I finally found that article and now I'm not sure how to get back to it because it was one of many. That's about as good as I can give you. Hero of Time 87 12:55, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

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