date of Death
Also, his grave reads 1905-1943. And his age at the time of death is 38, but couldn't it also be 37, depending on when his birthday was? MUDBL00D 11:25, May 4, 2011 (UTC)
IT WAS IN 1944
Tom Riddle, Sr. died in 1944, not 1943. The book canon comes first to the movie canon. And in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, it reads "Half a century ago, something strange had happened there..." and "Fifty years before, at daybreak, on a fine summer's morning.... a maid had entered the drawing room to find all three Riddles dead." The present is August 1994. Thus Tom Riddle, Sr. and his parents were killed in 1944, not 1943.
Also, in the Harry Potter Companion book, it says that they died in July/August 1944.
- You make a valid point about Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. However, in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (which takes place from 1992-1993) it is also stated the events of Voldemort's time took place fifty years earlier, and the Diary Horcrux states it is the preservation of Voldemort's sixteen-year old self. In Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Dumbledore states that Voldemort murdered the Riddles in the summer when he was sixteen years old, which would support the 1943 death date. As for the Harry Potter Companion book, it is an unofficial guidebook and cannot be taken as canononical. - Nick O'Demus 21:57, July 17, 2012 (UTC)
Loyalty section update
Shouldn't the Gaunt family be removed from his loyalty section? Riddle Sr. wasn't loyal to them at all and abandoned his only tie to them, Merope. 188.8.131.52 18:00, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
Is it accurate for his marital status to be "widowed" - considering that he was deceived into marrying Merope (he was under the influence of the Love Potion)? I think he should actually be described as "single". He apparently never made a conscious choice to marry anyone. - UnicornWolf (talk) 14:28, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
- I don't think it really matters how he married Merope, the simple fact is that he did marry her, and she died thereafter: a married man whose wife (or ex-wife) passes away is now known as widowed. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 14:50, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
No, Rodolphus. Divorce or separated, they couple MEAN it. If both the man and the woman don't what this marriage to continue on, then they separate, or divorce. But if one of them dies, then the other will be widowed.
- I don't think a legal divorce was ever implied, though. -- Saxon 14:00, February 1, 2015 (UTC)
Later used his death?
How can that be? Horcruxes can only be made shortly after somebody is murdered, don't they? Otherwise would it mean that the soul never heals together again,, which is wrong. --König Elessar I. (talk) 17:10, November 29, 2015 (UTC)
Riddle did not abandon Merope and her baby because he was date raped enslaved against his will. Laughing at a wizard wearing a ridilcous outfit and being called a snob doesn't make him comparable to Voldemort, who if anything, was more like his mother in mentality. Urg the Unclean (talk) 23:44, August 5, 2017 (UTC)
- I agree that this article needs an overhaul to be more mindful of the fact that Tom was sexually assaulted. The apparent victim-blaming tone is troubling and definitely needs to be addressed. But I think your edits are problematic in that they introduce inferences and assumptions that aren't supported by the text. We don't know whether love potions in the Potterverse strip agency to the point of an Imperius Curse. Thus, it's an overstep to describe Tom as Merope's "slave," because we don't know how much control she had over him. We also don't know whether Tom fled from her in "fear" or whether she was "deranged." There are ways that we can faithfully describe what we know happened to Tom from the text without making assumptions. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 04:36, August 6, 2017 (UTC)
- We know the Love Potion Merope used was more powerful then the stuff used at Hogwarts and she made him have sex with her. Dumbledore also initially thought of the imperious curse, but the fact that he went to love potion does also suggest that Riddle's free will was compromised. I'd see fleeing because she was deranged would be the same. He just woke up only to find out he'd been effectively kidnapped, alienated from friends/family, and forced to have a child with some woman he had no interest in. Harry Potter's sight of Ogden does describe him stifling a giggle at the sight of his bizarre attempt at muggle clothing. We see RIddle is disgusted by Morfin snake nailing to the door and telling Cecilia not to look, showing he has humanity. I say this because the original article was basically saying the evil aspects of Voldemort came from Riddle.
- Final note, outside of saying Marvolo had two kids, Riddle never mentioned Merope, all his disdain was directed at Marvolo and Morfin who are mentioned as widely hated for terrorizing the neighbor, animal cruelty, and other antisocial behavior. Given that Riddle was mentioned to often pass the shack on his walks, the class system at the time, and that the view of the mentally unhealthy in the 1920s, Riddle's disdain of the two is not exactly unwarranted. Urg the Unclean (talk) 06:45, August 6, 2017 (UTC)
- We don't know Riddle's specific thoughts concerning his leaving Merope, other than that, when she stopped drugging him with Love Potion, he came to his senses and wanted nothing to do with her. We don't know if he was afraid of her for what she'd done to him, or angry, or disgusted. We don't know if he felt ashamed and blamed himself for accepting that first potion-spiked drink from her. We should only describe what we know -- that Tom came to his senses and left her -- and avoid speculating on the thoughts and feelings he might have had at the time.
- Chapter One of Goblet of Fire gives an unfavourable description of Tom: "Elderly Mr and Mrs Riddle had been rich, snobbish and rude, and their grown-up son, Tom, had been even more son." This is the narrative voice speaking rather than a specific character giving their personal opinion in dialogue. The flashback in Half-Blood Prince bears this description out, to a certain extent, in that it shows him to be somewhat prideful, snobbish, and callous. After all, he and Cecilia just laughed at Ogden, instead of trying to ask if the obviously distressed man was alright and needed help. Describing Tom's unfavourable characteristics doesn't detract from the wrongness of what he suffered.
- Also, if you want to round out the section "Personality and traits" section by noting how he showed genuine affection and concern for Cecelia, that wouldn't be amiss. I blanket-reverted your edits not because all of them were problematic, but, rather, because it was easier for me to start from scratch and reintroduce things than to do it the other way around.
- I don't see an issue with noting Tom's disfavour of Marvolo and Morfin was based on their behaviour. But I think we should avoid framing this in the context of "the class system at the time" and the "view of the mentally unhealthy in the 1920s" because this would be speculation. At least, in doesn't belong within the main body of the article, although it could be added as a "Behind the scenes" item.
- There's also the issue that the Harry Potter series is targeted at younger readers. We try to keep this wiki PG-13, which, in general, means avoiding overt descriptions of sex where possible. It's why I prefer to avoid explicitly describing Tom as the victim of sexual assault within this and other articles. It's enough to state that Tom was forced to marry Merope by being drugged with Love Potion, and that Merope eventually became pregnant. Older readers can put two and two together. But a ten-year-old who reads this article won't have the concept of sexual violence dumped on them by a wiki about their favourite book series. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 08:12, August 6, 2017 (UTC)
- Fair enough about the class system(I'll note it in the behind the scenes) and toning things down for younger readers.
- I think the fact that immediately left and never came back, shows Riddle did not enjoy being ensared and wanted to forget the whole experience, even if its not stated, thats what his behavior says.
- Keep in mind that had been after the incident with Merope, which realistically would affect a personality for the worse.
- Laughing at Ogden is mildly unpleasant, but Ogden's attempt at muggle clothing were described as so silly even Harry struggled not to laugh seeing it and Riddle didn't know that Ogden was running from Morfin or was a wizard. This and Talking about the stuff he owns is egotistical, but not sociopathic behavior like Voldemort would later show, as the original article was suggesting.
- We can use ensnared/bewitched instead of enslaved and such if things need to be softer for young readers of the wiki. Urg the Unclean (talk) 20:16, August 6, 2017 (UTC)