Stub
Should the article be removed from stub status? HPguru 04:16, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think the article itself should be considered a stub, but I don't know if the list of those known to be skilled with nonverbal magic is comprehensive. Oread 16:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Harry Potter
I wanted to discuss this because I have removed Harry's name from the list of practitioners several times, but others keep putting it in. From what I remember, in Half-Blood Prince, Harry has noted difficulties in mastering nonverbal magic, and Snape comments on it snidely more than once. The only spell Harry ever performs nonverbally with success is Levicorpus, but the list is for people who nonverbally perform spells that are usually performed with the incantation. Have I forgotten Harry learning nonverbal magic, or am I right in thinking it was never something he was very good at? Oread 01:39, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
- For now, I'm going to remove Harry's name and put in an editor's note about having to cite when Harry performed nonverbal magic if his name is going to be re-added in the future. Oread 14:18, 11 December 2008 (UTC)´
He also perforned a nonverbal refilling charm after Aragog´s funural, but that was under the influence of Felix Felicis.--Rodolphus 14:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Like you said, when under the influence of Felix Felicis, everything works, and after Aragog's funeral was when he performed it under the influence of Felix Felicis! According to Hermione, he was capable of it anytime, Felix merely gave him a boost of confidence to do things he always was capable of doing, just that he wasn't sure of himself. So I'm saying he COULD perform it, what do you say, Oread? --Tonicquill 15:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I still don't think it should be added, since he only performed nonverbal magic under exceptional circumstances. Using Felix Felicis is considered cheating in Quidditch, which implies that using it is an unfair advantage. Harry might be capable of performing nonverbal magic, but what's relevant is if he ever actually performed it without help. Oread 03:36, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, it was written that as he was unable to perform the refilling charm nonverbally, he murmured it under his breath.122.163.72.1 16:25, November 11, 2010 (UTC) WannabeDumbledore
Patronus Charm in DH
Somebody else recently added Harry, citing his use of the Patronus Charm in Ch. 32 of Deathly Hallows. However, I'm not sure that it was a nonverbal use. Here is the passage:
- The air around them had frozen: Harry's breath caught and solidified in his chest. Shapes moved out in the darkness, swirling figures of concentrated blackness, moving in a great wave towards the castles, their faces hooded and their breath rattling...
- Ron and Hermione closed in beside him as the sounds of fighting behind them grew suddenly muted, deadened, because a silence only dementors could bring was falling thickly through the night, and Fred was gone, and Hagrid was surely dying or already dead...
- "Come on, Harry!" said Hermione's voice from a very long way away. "Patronuses, Harry, come on!"
- He raised his wand, but a dull hopelessness was spreading throughout him: How many more lay dead that he did not yet know about? He felt as though his soul had already half left his body....
- ...
- And then a silver hare, a boar, and fox soared past Harry, Ron, and Hermione's heads: the dementors fell back before the creatures' approach. Three more people had arrived out of the darkness to stand beside them, their wands outstretched, continuing to cast Patronuses: Luna, Ernie, and Seamus.
- "That's right," said Luna encouragingly, as if they were back in the Room of Requirement and this was simply spell practice for the D.A., "That's right, Harry...come on think of something happy..."
- "Something happy?" he said, his voice cracked.
- "We're all still here," she whispered, "we're still fighting. Come on, now...."
- There was a silver spark, then a wavering light, and then, with the greatest effort it had ever cost him the stag burst from the end of Harry's wand. It cantered forward, and now the dementors scattered in earnest, and immediately the night was mild again, but the sounds of the surrounding battle were loud in his ears.
The incantation is never mentioned for any of the people using or trying to use their Patronus here. But I'm not sure that we should assume that means they weren't said, considering the numerous references to the Dementors' presences affecting sound. Any thoughts? Oread 21:06, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Quote attribution
Regarding the quote at the beginning of the article, Snape states in Half-Blood Prince, Ch. 9, that Hermione's explanation of the advantages of non-verbal magic was "copied almost word for word from The Standard Book of Spells, Grade Six." So should we attribute the quote to Hermione or to the book by Miranda Goshawk, or perhaps something in between, like "Hermione paraphrasing from the Standard Book of Spells, Grade 6?" ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 11:25, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, "almost word for word" is not verbatim, so I don't think it would qualify as an exact quote from the book. Especially considering that Snape may have been exaggerating, as he's always inclined to belittle Hermione in the classroom. "Hermione paraphrasing" would probably be best, in my opinion. Oread (talk) 22:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- There had to be some truth behind Snape's comment, though, because he would probably know better than to completely fabricate a reason for making a snide comment toward Hermione. Hermione is the type of person who would read The Standard Book of Spells, Grade 6 from cover to cover, and if Snape claimed it contained something it didn't, she would've known, and likely would've called him on it. It would've been another twenty points from Gryffindor, but like "There's no need to call me 'sir', Professor", it would've been worth it. :) ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 14:49, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Film omission
Training in nonverbal spell use is completely omitted from the Half-Blood Prince film. Levicorpus is not mentioned and no training is shown in this area, though in the added scene of The Burrow under attack at christmastime, Harry and Ginny defend themselves from Bellatrix and Fenrir in the marsh for a few moments before Arthur and Tonks arrive. During those moments no words are spoken, but lights flash towards Harry and Ginney and they deflect them with gestures of their wands (very similar in appearance to the battle in the Ministry during the Order of the Phoenix film when Sirius dies), which may be non-verbal Shield Charms. --MidnightLightning 20:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
The Killing Curse
Can Avada Kedavra be cast non-verbally?Frosty Earth 11:58, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Apparently yes. Bellatrix kills a fox using a nonverbal flash of light in book 6.--Rodolphus 12:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh right. I was relating to OOTP film where most of the Death Eaters duel with non-verbal spells, indicating that they may not even be attemting to kill their opponentsFrosty Earth 12:05, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
I´m missing one thing
Does not Dumbledore create a armchair in the during the questioning of Harry Potter in the ministry of magic?
Notes and References section
Since Order of the Phoenix is divided into book and film in the reference section, shouldn't the same be done for Prisoner of Azkaban as some of the non-verbal spells performed by Albus Dumbledore and Remus Lupin in the list occured in the movie only and not the book. I'd do it if I know how to.
Ron making it snow
I was just thinking, can this really be considered a nonverbal spell if he didn't mean to do it? Doesn't this go under the same heading as the whole underage magic thing, where kids produce unintentional magic because of strong emotions? I mean if this counts as nonverbal magic, then it seems to me that Harry blowing up his aunt and opening the locked cupboard to get his stuff would also count as nonverbal magic. --BachLynn23 14:48, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2
I would like to ask something...who knows what is that blue spell which is used many times during the final battle?and what is that red spell which was used by arthur weasly during the final battle?92.118.153.233 14:34, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
Harry can use non-verbal spells
There are moments in the Deathly Hallows that Harry uses non-verbal magic you have to recognize it.
examples:
pg. 122- "Harry flicked his wand at the oil lamps as he entered and they illuminated the shabby but cozy room" if it was verbal magic then incantation would have been said. And it isn't something like harry lillinated the room as he entred there is wand movement stated.
pg. 272 "He did not bother to grope around inside it this time, but used another summing charm. The tent emerged in a lump mass of, canvas, rope, and poles." If he said the incantation out loud the spell would have been added like it was when he summoned the Dittany "Accio Dittany'.
pg. 277 "Harry lit his wand as he swapped places with Hermione at 10 o'clock". On the page he is mentioned to be surrounded by scilence that was broken by rustling leaves and twigs. If he said the Lumos cantation out loud the he would have broken the scilence.
then there's when he cast the Patronus Charm non-verbally at the Battle of Hogwarts. If said the cantation out loude it would have self explanatory and no need to explain.
pg. 657 "Harry!" breathed Hermione behind him, but he had already pointed his want at the crate blocking his view. It lifted an inch into the air and drifted sideways silently. As quietly as he could, he pulled himself up into the room." If the incantation was said aloud it would have said so, but it was dead quiet.
Misskatniss1546 (talk) 21:40, December 17, 2013 (UTC)Misskatniss1546