Talk:Native Americans

Um.....this hardly pertains to Harry Potter.....--Courage the Cowardly User 06:35, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Does it?

YEs! many thing do not pertain to harrypotter

Delete vote

Vote to add the deletion tag or not, this is not the actual deletion, just the vote to add the deletion tag or not....--Courage the Cowardly User ^(talk) 15:38, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Delete

--Courage the Cowardly User ^(talk) 15:38, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

--KatBlueDog ^{Hey there!} 15:47, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

-- Matthew Arous. 2:08pm, December 1, 2011

92.23.114.170 20:41, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Keep

1. I don't think it's less relevant than say, Lionfish, which has its own article separate from Lionfish spine. I think it's kind of interesting that there's a possibility, however vague, that Dumbledore could be part Native American. EmmyG 15:51, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
2. --L.V.K.T.V.J.^{(Send an owl!)} 15:58, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comments

There are many things on this wiki that are here for the mere sake of them being mentioned. There are many people mentioned on JKR's sight that have their own arrticles.--L.V.K.T.V.J.^{(Send an owl!)} 15:58, October 9, 2010 (UTC) Harry said he thought kendra looked like a native American, a very very small mention, we don't even know if any native Americans were shown in the series.--Wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure. ^(talk) 19:26, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

In Harry Potter and Me is mentioned a Ravenclaw student with the name Stephen Cornfoot. Cornfoot seems to be a native American name. So I think - when he is british, what is very likely - he must have native American roots. Harry granger 19:37, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

That is speculation--Wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure. ^(talk) 19:44, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

It is also speculation that Harry Potter thinks Kendra Dumbledore could be a native American because of her looks but that does not make it more improbable. Do you know a "not Red Indian" with the surname Cornfoot?

Regardless of all of this, the term "Native American" is used, in the book, in the context of describing Kendra Dumbledore's looks; since Kendra Dumbledore's article here reflects that fact, it makes sense to have another one explaining what a Native American is. If we have articles explaining what a Budgerigar and Neptune are because they were mentioned, or what a tomato is because Bertie Bott has a tomato flavored bean, I don't really get why this article is a problem. --EmmyG 20:21, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

J.K. Rowling doesn't mention Native Amercans, but she shows them in the Goblit of Fire. In the discription of the black hair American witches who were sitting under the sign 'Salem Insitute' he discribes them as wearing strange clothes, and speaking in unfamiler toungs. Prehapes she was trying to say in the magical world the Americas have kept the customs of their native people, who also have very powerful folklore and belifs in magic.-Leah Walentosky

Terminology

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Coming from the traditional territory of the Mississaugas of Scugog Island First Nation, I've always been taught that the terms "Native"/"Native American"/"Indian" are offensive, and that "First Nations", "Métis" and "Inuit" are preferred.

However, I'm not sure whether the same rules apply in the United States of America or around the world, or indeed whether political correctness would take precedence over canon. As the article on the wiki currently stands, according to what students in Ontario are being taught, we're describing "First Nations".

Is this a universal thing, or is it just a Canadian thing (eh)? And if "FNMI" (First Nations, Métis and Inuit) is accepted globally, does it apply in a canon context? Or does it not really matter? --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 23:22, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

"First Nations" is, apparently, only a term used in Canada (I know I've certainly never heard it). Wikipedia, as always having an article on everything, has a whole page on the so-called Native American name controversy. The important thing to take away from the article is that, internationally (and therefore in Britian), the PC term seems to be the cumbersome "indigenous peoples of the Americas". However, Wikipedia also notes that no name is truly acceptable to all "indigenous peoples"; I personally know people who are natives or of native decent who call themselves by the "obsolete" term "Indians".

Therefore, I think the best policy is to stick with the term used in canon. After all, we have plenty of pages at "incorrect" titles but canon names, so I see no need for us to use a PC name over a canon name (so long as we aren't titling this page "redskin" or "Injun" or something in that vein). Per our canon policy, I think the best term to use is American Indian, as Rowling's personal comments take precedence over the books. -- 1337star ^{(Drop me a line!)} 21:02, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

I think that it depends on the location of the school - which seems to be some where between Quebec and Ottawa near waterways traditionally filled with Elver (giving the school its name). JKR would be more familiar with American terminology than Canadian terminology because Brits get more American news than Canadian news. While the exact location of the school is in dispute, both Canadian and American terminology should be used. Indigenous refers to First Nation, Inuit and Metis and the latter two can be ruled out considering the approximate location. Probably best when one does get an exact location is to refer to the tribe or tribes to which it is their traditional lands, as is the common courtesy as of late. Politicians and protesters seem to be extending that courtesy at the beginning of their speeches as of late.

In the mean time, if one knows any First Nation / Native American mythology involving eels, it would help. (Vaudree (talk) 21:51, February 1, 2016 (UTC))

Most of the Mi'kmaq legends on the kataq or katew (ie Elver or American eel) are on PDF and this netbook doesn't do pdf! (Vaudree (talk) 23:12, February 1, 2016 (UTC))

"Native American" is the term used in canon. Specifically, on page 178 of my copy of Deathly Hallows (Raincoast hardcover), an old photo of Kendra Dumbledore makes Harry "[think] of Native Americans." It's true that J. K. Rowling recently used the term "American Indian" in a tweet, but the canon tier policy is meant to be applied when she contradicts herself on facts, e.g., if she says Durmstrang is in Northern Europe in GOF, then says it's in Siberia in a later interview, we should defer to the most recent information. The term actually used in the books should always take precedence over a term used by Rowling in an offhand tweet.

Articles should generally be titled after the term used to describe the subject in canon. The exception would be if the only term used to describe a particular subject in canon were an offensive term. If the only reference to the indigenous peoples of North America in canon were Vernon Dursley making a racist joke (something he seems to like doing), and he used an offensive term to describe them, then of course we should use an acceptable term to title our article instead, because decency trumps canonicity.

But "Native American," to my knowledge, isn't generally regarded as offensive. The Oxford English Dictionary and other dictionaries don't deem it offensive or dated, unlike "Indian," which is always accompanied by a usage note explaining that many people view the word as problematic given its history. The OED's definition of "Native American" also applies to all indigenous peoples of North America and South America. So it doesn't seem to be the case that the term "Native American" applies only to indigenous peoples of the United States. Thus I don't see a need to mention the Canada-specific term "First Nations" in the in-universe section of the article. Though it might be worth discussing terminology in the "Behind the scenes" section of the article. ★ Starstuff ^{(Owl me!)} 06:45, February 9, 2016 (UTC)

In DH, there was a reference to Native Americans agree. But there is no where in Canon to say that it applies to all indigenous people of North and South America so one has to presume that it applies only to the USA (see Wikipedia and quotes from Parliamentary transcript below). Ilvermorny has to be listed as located in North America since it is hard to tell its exact location from the map - presume that we will learn of its exact location soon enough. JKR did say that there was Native American influence in the school that the people Newt meets in New York went to - and maybe that can be quoted. Can't find the quote, so hoping you can.

Agree that the term First Nation, since it was not used in Canon, should be in the "Behind the Scenes" section and that the same tribes were sometimes denoted differently depending on which side of the border one is located. You made a good case for that.

The Native American entry from Wikipedia [1]

Quote from First Nation Entry from Wikipedia:

[2]

June 11th, 2008 was the day of the apology for residential schools and that was the only business that day, so you can look through the speeches to see if there is even one mention of "Native Americans" - sample quotes from the party leaders:

Harper: "For more than a century, Indian residential schools separated over 150,000 aboriginal children from their families and communities. In the 1870s, the federal government, partly in order to meet its obligations to educate aboriginal children, began to play a role in the development and administration of these schools. Two primary objectives of the residential school system were to remove and isolate children from the influence of their homes, families, traditions and cultures, and to assimilate them into the dominant culture. These objectives were based on the assumption that aboriginal cultures and spiritual beliefs were inferior and unequal. Indeed, some sought, as was infamously said, “to kill the Indian in the child”." / " Many were inadequately fed, clothed and housed. All were deprived of the care and nurturing of their parents, grandparents and communities. First nations, Inuit and Métis languages and cultural practices were prohibited in these schools. Tragically, some of these children died while attending residential schools, and others never returned home."

Dion: " Government policy destroyed the fabric of family in first nations, Métis and Inuit communities." / "Today we live in a reality created by the residential schools system, a present that is haunted by this tragic and painful heritage from those first nations, Métis and Inuit children, from their families and their communities, a dark and painful heritage that all Canadians must accept as a part of our history.

For too long, Canadian governments chose denial over truth, and when confronted with the weight of truth, chose silence. For too long, Canadian governments refused to acknowledge their direct role in creating the residential schools system and perpetrating their dark and insidious goal of wiping out aboriginal identity and culture. For too long, Canadian governments chose to ignore the consequences of this tragedy instead of trying to understand them so that the suffering of first nations, Métis and Inuit communities continues to this day."

Layton: "It was this Parliament that enacted, 151 years ago, the racist legislation that established the residential schools. This Parliament chose to treat first nations, Métis and Inuit people as not equally human. It set out to kill the Indian in the child. That choice was horribly wrong. It led to incredible suffering. It denied first nations, Métis and Inuit the basic freedom to choose how to live their lives. For those wrongs that we have committed, we are truly sorry." / " It begins with officially recognizing the rights and cultures of first nations, Métis and Inuit peoples by signing the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

But reconciliation also means that, as a Parliament and as a country, we must take action to address the terrible inequality faced by first nations, Métis and Inuit communities. We can start by restoring the nation-to-nation relationship between the Government of Canada and first nations, Métis and the Inuit." [3]