Talk: Fleamont Potter

Hey guys I was rereading this article, specifically the part Behind the scenes part. The person who contribute this part thinks James Potter's mother could be Dorea Black. He or she believe this because James only mentioned his father being in Gryffindor, and not his mother, so she could have been in Slytherin, as most Blacks, except for Sirius was in Slytherin. I am here to propose my point that she neither was a Slytherin and not Dorea Black. First, the latter. Of course as someone else already pointed out, Dorea die pretty young even in Muggle sense to James mother who die at an old age for wizards/witches. But I present a second point, Dorea and Charlus Potter were still on the Family Tree, not burn off. One would think James's parents be burn off by Walburga Black, Sirius's mother who kept the tapestry. After all, James parents took in Sirius, Walburga runaway blood traitor son, and treated him as one of their own. Now onto the former, on how I know she's not a Slytherin. Yes, while it's true, James did not mention his mother's house. But look around it, when he was talking about Slytherin house. Sirius told him "My whole family have been in Slytherin." And James replied "Blimey, and I thought you seemed all right!" From my interpretation, James implying being Slytherin makes a person seems odd. Would he say that if in fact, his very own mother was a Slytherin? I don't think so. While we see many similarity between Draco and James, both pureblood, spoil, there are many obvious differences. One that I can point out, while I think James may sometimes pout to get his parents to do things for him, I don't think he's like Draco, who would sometimes verbally abuse his mother, Narcissa. So I doubt, James would bad mouth his mother, and talk about Slytherin that way if his mother was one. So that my prove she wasn't in Slytherin Seasrmar 08:07, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Debatable point in Behind the Scenes

"In the "Special Features" disc of the Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban DVD, Fiona Shaw (who played Petunia Dursley) was interviewed saying how cars slowly pass by her father's house in Ireland, saying that "Harry Potter's grandfather lives there"."

Is this really necessary on this page. Petunia, and thus, Fiona Shaw, is not James´sister.--Rodolphus 18:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

The interview in question can be found on Disc 2 of Prisoner of Azkaban under "Divination Class" -> "Head to Shrunken Head" -> "The Dursleys." In it, Richard Griffiths, Fiona Shaw, Harry Melling, and Pam Ferris are asked about how people have reacted to their appearing in the HP films:

Interviewer: What about you? What experience have you had with some of your younger rellies [relatives]?

Fiona Shaw: They just can't believe it. My father lives in Ireland, and cars go slowly past his house, because they say "Harry Potter's grandfather lives in there." [Laughs hysterically as she continues to speak] It entirely bewilders.

Interviewer: They've got it really wrong, haven't they?

Fiona Shaw's comment evidently wasn't intended to refer to Mr. Evans or Mr. Potter. It's a story about how information often gets mixed up. People probably started to point out her father's house with, "That's where Fiona Shaw's father lives. She plays Harry Potter's aunt," and somehow that became "Harry Potter's grandfather lives there." ★ Starstuff ^{(Owl me!)} 14:33, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

i undestand that, but still "James Potter´s father" and "Fiona Shaw´s father" are not the same person. And as Fiona plays Petunia, Harry´s maternal aunt, not paternal. That was the reason for me to move the information to the Mr Evans-article.--Rodolphus 14:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah, now you have deleted this information entirely. Thank you.--Rodolphus 14:50, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

speculating

So I realise that this is mostly just speculation, but I was thinking, is it actually said somewhere that Harry had no living blood relatives besides Petunia when his parents where murdered? Because, and like I said total speculation, because it was Lily that died for Harry sealing the magic that protected him, it could have meant that only blood relatives of Lily could continue the protection, excluding any potential blood relatives of James. --BachLynn ^(Accio!) 23:31, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I believe it's mentioned in the early chapters of Philosopher's Stone. --Cubs Fan (Talk to me) 02:49, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

Charlus Potter

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So ... there's been a lot of speculation as to whether Charlus Potter and Dorea Black are the parents of James Potter I. I wanted to hold a full community discussion to finally either put these rumours to rest or add them to our wiki. The evidence for Charlus and Dorea being the parents of James is as follows:

Dorea died in 1977, and we know that the mother of James Potter died between 1975 and 1981; the Lexicon places her death between 1978 and 1981, but their dates are unsourced. The 1977 death would fit in with the "between 1975 and 1981" deaths.
Dorea and Charlus Potter had one child, a boy. One son.
Charlus Potter and James Potter share a surname.
James is a pure-blood and thus so were his parents; Dorea and Charlus were married into the House of Black, who blasted off anyone who didn't marry a pure-blood. Consequently, both Dorea and Charlus Potter and the parents of James Potter are both pure-blood.
James and Sirius being part of the same family, albeit somewhat distantly related, would explain why they already knew each other before they even boarded the Hogwarts Express, and we know James and Sirius knew each other before they boarded the Hogwarts Express because they were the only two in their compartment and that it was only later that they invited Lupin and Peter into their group.

So, is it coincidence that the dates of Charlus and Dorea Potter, and the dates of James Potter's parents, match, that they both have one son, that they share a surname and that they both are pure-blood? The only thing that doesn't fit is that supposedly James's parents were "old in wizarding terms" when they died and Dorea was only fifty-seven when she died. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 17:57, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

I have another objection to that. As I mentioned on my note above. If Dorea Black was James mother.She being a Black would mean she a Slytherin. James comment when Sirius told him how all of Sirius family was in Slytherin was "I thought you were alright." This imply there is something wrong with being a Slytherin. Would he say that if his loving mother would spoil him was a Slytherin herself. Furthermore, I think Charlus and Dorea would have blasted off for taken in Sirius when he ran away. I personally think Charlus and Dorea represented a branch of the Potters who are just capable of pureblood supremacy. Just like the Peverells family. Some are blood thirsty, Antioch, and some are humble, Ignotus. And they're brothers. Seasrmar (talk) 21:15, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

To Seasrmar, the only evidence towards all of the Blacks being in Slytherin were generalisations made by Horace Slughorn, who taught for years and likely did not remember every single family member and Sirius Black, and let's be honest, how would he know the House of a distant relative who went to school twenty-nine years before he was even born? Both were generalisations made to indicate Sirius's distinction from the rest of his family.

As for being blasted off for taking in Sirius when he ran away from home, it's plausible (not certain, but possible and actually likely) that as they only harboured him from June until September, the Black family didn't know where Sirius stayed. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 21:39, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

Hunnie Bunn, first I wanted to let you know that I have made some edits to this page. I was typing my original reply to you using my Notepad, I'm still fairly new with it. And well if you know, that thing cause cursor to jump. So I accidently made a different section, while I meant to reply to you. Also, I had a problem scrolling down, so I copy and paste it, and I accidently paste it twice, so I deleted the repetitive text. I don't know how to delete a section outright, if you do, can you please do it. Thanks.

Ok, now my reply to your current reply. If you look at objection, it actually can be broken down to 3 subobjections. And let me start by saying, you did a great job at addressing two of those points: The Slughorn generalization may not hold true and about Orion and Walburga may not have blasted off Dorea and Charlus because they do not know exactly whom Sirius stayed with. But there was a third point. James, for sure, would know what house his mother was in. And what he said to Sirius ""I thought you were alright" was after Sirius told him about how Sirius family has been all in Slytherin. Whether this is true or not, would not be significant without something. Sirius could have a distant relatives that may have been in other house, I agree. But that something is what James reaction to hearing his (at that time) future best friend's being related to a bunch of Slytherins. He's implying having family members in Slytherin was bad. So would James be hypocritical if the very fact his own mother was in Slytherin? How do we know that Dorea was a Slytherin? She was born in 1920 so her Hogwarts year would been c.1931-1938. In Chapter 5 of HBP, we learned that Horace Slughorn begun teaching around the same time Dumbledore begun. Dumbledore went to inform Tom Riddle of his acceptance to Hogwarts in 1938. So he would have been teaching well before then. So applying the same to Horace Slughorn, if prior to 1938, Dorea would have been a student under his time as a teacher. Therefore, he would know if Dorea Black was a Slytherin or not. Seasrmar (talk) 01:33, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

The empty sections have been deleted. So, essentially, the entire argument around James's parents not being Charlus and Dorea hangs on the key point, which is absolutely and totally correct: that is, that Slughorn states that all of the Black family have been in Slytherin, and Dorea was, notably, in Slytherin under Slughorn. James goes on to say that he thought Sirius was all right until he learned that Sirius's family was all in Slytherin.

That alone is nearly enough to convince me that I'm wrong about Charlus and Dorea being James's parents, but I have one very small counter-argument, more of a half-counter-argument, and that is that Dorea might not have been proud of her being in Slytherin and of her being in the House of Black, where Muggle-borns, Squibs and blood traitors are disowned. Perhaps she wanted James to dislike Slytherin as much as I think she probably did, and wanted him to be in Gryffindor like his father. I assumed he was joking with the "and I thought you seemed all right!" comment, but the "I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?" seems to imply differently. So, I believe Dorea preferred to think her son would be more open-minded whereas Slytherin were all about pure-blood supremacy.

Of course, either way it wouldn't be allowed to be added to the wiki's pages, now I reflect on it, because it's mostly based upon speculation and careful argument and counter-argument, so now I wondered your opinion on my last and latest counter-argument, purely for personal confirmation. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 02:06, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Should I bother bumphing this? I mean, I would appreciate at least one other opinion before removing the "active talk page" template, but maybe it's best to just let it die ... --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 02:32, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

About "Dorea might not have been proud of her being in Slytherin and of her being in the House of Black, where Muggle-borns, Squibs and blood traitors are disowned. Perhaps she wanted James to dislike Slytherin as much as I think she probably did, and wanted him to be in Gryffindor like his father." Actually, that is a good possibility because we may have met a possible character who may have done the same. I am speaking of course of Andromeda Tonks. Andromeda was born a Black, and no doubt a student during Slughorn tenure at Hogwarts. She was then a Slytherin. She renounced her family and what it stand for by marrying a muggle-born, Edward (Ted) Tonks And Tonks, Andromeda's daughter was sorted into Hufflepuff. But she was blasted off. Then we may ask why then wasn't Dorea blasted off too? Believe it or not, I actually may have an answer to this. In the Black Family Tree, there was one name, Ignatius Prewett. We found out he was Molly's and her brothers (Fabian and Gideon) uncle. He must have helped the Weasley somewhat if Molly give her third son, Percy, middle name after him: Percy Ignatius Weasley. And he nor his wife, Lucretta, a Black, was neither blasted off. But we should keep in mind, this relationship is uncle-niece, so Ignatius may gotten away with helping the Weasley. Would it be more difficult for Dorea to hide the fact that their son, James was working for Dumbledore and the Order, and actively oppose the Dark Lord, and his pureblood conquest?

From what I understand the exchange between James and Sirius originally did not started out as a joke.This is the dialouge:

“Who wants to be in Slytherin? I think I’d leave, wouldn’t you?” James asked the boy lounging on the seats opposite him, and with a jolt, Harry realized that it was Sirius. Sirius did not smile.

“My whole family have been in Slytherin,” he said.

“Blimey,” said James, “and I thought you seemed all right!”

Sirius grinned.

“Maybe I’ll break the tradition. Where are you heading, if you’ve got the choice?”

It didn't start off as joke. Notice Sirius didn't smile at first. That's the things with joke, it's only a a joke when it get laughter from someone else. It took Sirius awhile to laugh because I think at that very moment, he was still thinking and ultimately finally decided to break with his family pureblood views. He may have thought about it before, that was the turning point. He could have just as well tell James, "I don't think think so mate." This could have turn James and Sirius to be just as foes, and Sirius could have continue with his family belief. Of course, that didn't happened, but it was possible. I could help but compare this moment to when Harry, Ron and Draco was on the train the first time. Draco offer Harry his friendship, and told Harry to not make friends with the wrong sort. Harry could have taken Draco's friendship and ultimately be a Slytherin and just as enemy of Ron. But as Dumbledore say, it is our choice that determine who we are. There are many incident in the Harry Potter series often that show parallel of another event, with a slight twist. The above is an example of two incidents that are similar. I have a whole list of more.

You want to know something funny Hunnie Bunn? I came here to provide a counterargument to yours. But I am trying to think possible ways it may be true. It's all speculation of course. And what's more funny is, I'm actually the ones who have (and always will) encourage people with theories. I have said, until JKR prove them wrong, people are entiled to come up with theories. Back in the days, I was a member of a Harry Potter website, where I had a forum thread that discuss a lot of HP theories. Some of them were out there. I earned the nickname of HP Theorist Extraordinaire. The site is long close though, and sadly my thread on that forum went with it. However, I encourage you and all keep thinking. Of course, don't post in the Wiki article itself, but surely there's a place where we theorists can gather and discuss the possibilities? Seasrmar (talk) 03:13, August 18, 2013 (UTC)