If Classroom 4F and History of Magic is on the first floor, and in Half-Blood Prince we see a hallway on the second floor, why does McGonagall then say that History of Magic is upstairs ladies, not down?? ----184.108.40.206 20:02, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
- Plus, in the PS2 version of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (video game) it is located on the fourth floor. ----220.127.116.11 14:15, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
- Actually, if you play the PS2 version of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (video game) it is located on the fourth floor in that game, too. --18.104.22.168 20:10, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
- The books, by far a higher source of canon than the films or the video games, suggest otherwise:
- "“I always knew Salazar Slytherin was a twisted old loony,” Ron told Harry and Hermione as they fought their way through the teeming corridors at the end of the [History of Magic] lesson to drop off their bags before dinner. […]
As they were shunted along in the throng, Colin Creevey went past.
But Colin was so small he couldn't fight against the tide of people bearing him toward the Great Hall; they heard him squeak, “See you, Harry!” and he was gone.[…]
The crowd thinned and they were able to climb the next staircase without difficulty.
As she spoke, they turned a corner and found themselves at the end of the very corridor where the attack had happened. They stopped and looked. The scene was just as it had been that night, except that there was no stiff cat hanging from the torch bracket, and an empty chair stood against the wall bearing the message “The Chamber of Secrets has been Opened.”"
- —Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, Chapter 9 - The Writing on the Wall (some irrelevant text suppressed)
- The above excerpt strongly suggests that the classroom is located on the first floor (note that the suppressed text does not supply any information about the location of the characters). The characters leave the History of Magic classroom, climb a staircase and find themselves in the corridor outside Moaning Myrtle's bathroom, which we know for a fact is located on the second floor. This is not consistent with a fourth floor location, which would be two floors above Myrtle's bathroom. -- 20:47, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
- It doesn't which way they go, in this case 'up' or 'down'. Furthermore it says climb the next staircase. It isn't said how long the staircase is. This means that it could indeed be the fourth floor in the books. --22.214.171.124 09:58, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Do correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, the verb "to climb" meant "to ascend; rise; to go up; to mount; to move upwards on", so no, the History of Magic classroom CANNOT possibly be on the fourth floor, no matter how you put it. The books say first floor and given that the books are the highest form of canon there is, a first floor location is canon. -- 14:43, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm sorry to correct you about this, but the book didn't say first floor, as you see in the text. If it only were so (go upstairs) about the verb 'to climb' I would agree, but as I just checked the verb, I can say that you are able to say both climb up and climb down. As the book didn't say which floor, as I told before, the highest canon source is the films, but as it only says upstairs ladies, not down the highest source is the games. I still go for a change to the fourth floor. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs).
- Not really, no. You can say climb down, but of course, you need the down preposition to make it a phrasal verb with the meaning "going down the stairs" — what I am saying here is that "climb" and "climb down" are not synonymous at all, in fact, they mean quite the opposite.
- When we use the verb "to climb" in its transitive sense (and not in the "gripping with the hands and using the feet, like in a ladder" meaning of the verb, as the characters are using the stairway normally), the direction is upward; the word up is implied. When we say "to climb a mountain" we are saying "to go from the base of a mountain to its summit". Saying that "ivy is climbing the wall" is the same as saying "ivy is rising from the ground to the top of the wall". Likewise, saying "someone is climbing the stairs" is exactly the same as saying "someone is going up the stairs". No matter how you put it, it is ludicrous, in my humble opinion, to suggest that someone would use "climb the stairs" to say "going down the stairs".
- Reading the excerpt leaves no doubts that the History of Magic classroom is on the first floor. Order of the Phoenix further supports this, as Harry is described as "[setting] off downstairs" towards the Staffroom after a History of Magic lesson. -- 18:53, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
Okay, sorry, now I see, when you say it that way. My apologies. Actually, when thinking about it, it is possible that the hallway that Harry Potter, Ronald Weasley, Minerva McGonagall, Davies and all the other students are seen in could be on the ground floor. I mean, when McGonagall says upstairs ladies, not down and History of Magic is on the first floor, it has to be the ground floor. Plus the fact that the hall couldn't be on the second floor outside Myrtle's toilet as the two looks very different from each other. Furthermore, shortly after that scene Harry and Ron walks through the halls around the Middle Courtyard which is a ground floor level area. --188.8.131.52 21:11, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
- The two hallways (the one in Half-Blood Prince and the one outside Moaning Myrtle's bathroom) you are arguing are "very different from each other" are, in actuality, the very same one. I don't think there's a way to reconcile the literary canon with the film canon in this matter, as they are completely different: for one, the hallway (and Moaning Myrtle's bathroom) is actually on the first floor in the films (the Stone Bridge is accessible via the first-floor corridor; and this corridor is one flight of stairs above the Viaduct Entrance, which is on the ground floor) -- the Middle Courtyard can be accessed through that corridor, although it is one floor below, so the location of the Courtyard is immaterial for the discussion.
- I reassert that the novels and films are, in this matter, incompatible. The films specifically say the History of Magic classroom is ABOVE the first floor (whether the classroom is on the fourth floor, like in the games, is unknown); the books leave it clear that the classroom is on the first floor. Per the canon policy, book canon trumps film canon, and, thus, canonical fact is that the History of Magic classroom is on the first floor. There is little more to discuss on this matter, I think. -- 14:43, July 24, 2012 (UTC)
- I have another theory: Is it a possibility that when McGonagall said History of Magic is upstairs ladies, not down she actually meant a short flight of stairs, like those between the Viaduct Courtyard and the Entrance Hall in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2, thus still having the classroom on the first floor?? --184.108.40.206 08:44, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
The excerpt given points more towards a ground floor location - note "climb the next staircase", so they climbed more than one staircase between 4F and the second floor, and also Creevey was being pulled "towards the great hall", which is on the ground floor, so unless people were pulling him through the floor they were on the ground floor at that point--Acer4666 (talk) 10:20, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
- 220.127.116.11: That's quite unlikely, I'm afraid. The word "upstairs" means, idiomatically, "on a higher floor, or level", so it would make no sense for McGonagall to say that the classroom is upstairs when it is on that same floor.
- Acer4666: Literary canon elsewhere points to the first-floor. See, for instance, the following two excerpts:
- "Harry, Ron, and Hermione didn't speak to each other at all until they came to a halt in the entrance hall, which seemed very cold and gloomy after the grounds.
Snape was standing there.
Harry flushed. They turned to go outside, but Snape called them back.
“Be warned, Potter — any more nighttime wanderings and I will personally make sure you are expelled. Good day to you.”
He strode off in the direction of the staffroom."
- —Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, Chapter 16 - Through the Trapdoor
- "Once outside the [History of Magic class]room, Harry returned Hedwig to his shoulder and hurried off up the corridor, pausing to think only when he was out of sight of Binns's door. His first choice of somebody to cure Hedwig would have been Hagrid, of course, but as he had no idea where Hagrid was his only remaining option was to find Professor Grubbly-Plank and hope she would help. He peered out of a window at the blustery, overcast grounds. There was no sign of her anywhere near Hagrid's cabin; if she was not teaching, she was probably in the staff room. He set off downstairs, Hedwig hooting feebly as she swayed on his shoulder."
- —Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 17 - Educational Decree Number Twenty-Four
- From the Philosopher's Stone one, one can conclude that the staffroom is on the ground floor, off the Entrance Hall. From the Order of the Phoenix one, we can gleam that the History of Magic cannot be on the ground floor (note that Harry has to get "downstairs" from the History of Magic classroom to get to the staffroom). Ergo, the History of Magic classroom must be on the first floor. -- 19:34, July 25, 2012 (UTC)