I'm just re-reading Deathly Hallows and I realised, despite all the specualtion about Umbridge belonging in Slytherin House she couldn't have been because Phineas Nigellus says that Snape was the first Slytherin to be Head of Hogwarts since himself. So where does she belong? Certainly not Gryffindor given her hatred for them, which leaves either Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw. I'm guessing Hufflepuff assuming she was the sort of student that most people associate with that house, that is not being talented enough to belong anywhere else. I think that is more likely given her ineptitude which is shown throughout the fith book. What does everyone else think about this? Jayce Carver Talk 08:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- It may be a technicality, but Umbridge never had access to the Headmaster's office. Phineas may not have considered her a "true" headmaster because of this. - Cavalier One(Wizarding Wireless Network) 08:41, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Hufflepuffs aren't students that just aren't talented enough. You make it sound like Hufflepuff is for the misss-fits, those who couldn't find their place in the other houses, but they had to put them somewhere. Wrong! A hufflepuff's main qualities are his/her high sense for justice, loyalty and kindness. Just because a student isn't in Gryffindor does not mean he is not brave. Take Luna's example for that. Or just because a student is in Hufflepuff does not mean he "is not talented enough": take Cedric Diggory's example.--Ohmbun 09:11, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
But doesn't she say to McGonagall, at least in the movie, "I'm sorry dear, but to question my practices is to question the ministry, and by extension, the minister himself. I am a tolerant woman, but the one thing I will not stand for... is disloyalty." My vote goes in for bad Hufflepuff. --Guelta
I didn't say it applies to all Hufflepuffs, it's just how most people view them, which is true, as the Sorting Hat said Hufflepuff took what was leftover because they didnt posses any of the qualites valued by the other founders. Jayce Carver Talk 09:48, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- Either way, it is unlikely that Umbridge would be in Hufflepuff anyway. She was neither kind or just. No true loyalty is shown during the series either. So, that leaves Ravenclaw. It is possible given Umbridge;s theoretical side but it seems unlikely. ShirleyA(The Quibbler) 10:58, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
The text mentioned by Jayce above is found in DH16: "He venerated Snape, the first Slytherin headmaster since he himself had controlled the school, and they [Harry, Ron, and Hermione] had to be careful not to criticise, or ask impertinent questions about Snape, or Phineas Nigellus would instantly leave his painting."
I, too, took this to mean that Umbridge wasn't in Slytherin. Even though Hogwarts castle didn't consider Umbridge to be a "true" headmistress, Phineas Nigellus may very well have done so on a personal level, especially since he seems to have shared her views on education and blood status. Since Phineas Nigellus is described as "venerat[ing]" Headmaster Snape for being a Slytherin, wouldn't he have had the same praise for Umbridge, if she had also been in Slytherin? Of course, from a purely semantic perspective, Snape would still be "the first Slytherin headmaster since [Phineas Nigellus]" even if Umbridge was in Slytherin, because Umbridge was a headmistress. I do think the comment definitively establishes that Headmasters Dippet and Dumbledore weren't in Slytherin.
I once asked myself what a bad Hufflepuff would be like and decided the answer was Umbridge. Her homey office decor — dried flowers, doilies, decorative kitten plates — reminds me a little of JKR's description of the Hufflepuff common room: "It is a very cosy and welcoming place, as dissimilar as possible from Snape's dungeon. Lots of yellow hangings, and fat armchairs, and little underground tunnels leading to the dormitories, all of which have perfectly round doors, like barrel tops." Plus the affected sweetness in the way Umbridge spoke could be interpreted as a corrupted form of Hufflepuff kindness. Yes, she was a truly horrible person as an adult, but there's nothing to suggest that she wasn't kind, just, and loyal when she was Sorted at age eleven. People change, after all, often for the worse. Also, Zacharias Smith was in Hufflepuff, but he wasn't exactly kind, nor was he particularly loyal. Of course, this is just speculation of my part. :) ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 03:56, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
That was my line of thinking too. She definatley went to Hogwarts as a kid, as she mentions something about her childhood in her start of term speech I think. There seems to be "best and worst of" examples of students from all houses. For example, Cormac McLaggen was the worst example of a Gryffindor and Slughorn was probably the best example of a Slytherin. I've yet tofind a bad Ravenclaw however. Jayce Carver Talk 07:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
One of Hufflepuff's distinguishing features is the value of "fair play". Umbridge's treatment of her students was distinctively UNfair. 22.214.171.124 13:02, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Cormac McLaggen wasn't the worst Gryffindor, Peter Pettigrew was =/. And the worst Ravenclaw so far is Cho's friend Marietta 126.96.36.199 21:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I believe the worst Ravenclaw was the Grey Lady, the ghost of the Ravenclaw house. As I remember it, she was the daughter of Rowena Ravenclaw and she stole her mother's diadem in her desire to outwitt her mother. As she tells Harry in the battle of Hogwarts, Rowena Ravenclaw died shortly afterwards.--Ohmbun 09:10, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, you are right. The grey lady, Helena Ravenclaw was a nasty piece of work. But, Umbridge still goes WAY beyond ber in evilness. Ravenclaw is still the most fitting house though.ShirleyA(The Quibbler) 10:16, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I always assumed that Umbridge was a Slytherin because she was horrible but there is good and bad in any house just look at Cormac McLaggen and Pettigrew. The description of her office does sound a bit like the Hufflepuff Common room but she could be a Rvanclaw because she must be intelligent to work for the Ministry of MagicHermione821 15:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I know I am not a proper user, but as a fan passing by who is very interested in Umbridge, I do think that she is a Slytherin but she could be a Hufflepufff. She used Zacharias Smith a spy for the DA at one point becuase she was very interested in the Dark Arts. Phineas could have meant that Snape was the first HEADMASTER.
First, wouldn´t this be considered an off-topic forum, which is not allowed here? and Second, When did Umbridge have Zacharias spy on the DA? And third: I think we could add "possibly not Slytherin" to Umbridge´s infobox, based on Phineas´comment.--Rodolphus 18:19, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
I, like so many others, had always considered this evil woman to have been a part of Slytherin, though I must admit the "dark Hufflepuff" theory is most intriguing. When it comes to Phineas Nigellus's comment he, as a proper Headmaster, may have seen her appointment as a professor and her position as High Inquisitor as an encroachment upon the school's independence by the Ministry of Magic. Phineas would have had to ask himself where his loyalty lied, to a single person formerly of Slytherin (if such were the case) and an increasingly intrusive Ministry, or to the school itself as an independent institution. Her appointment by the Ministry, NOT through [| Hogwart's Board of Governors], may have been the tipping point. What Fudge was attempting to do was usurp the power and independence of Hogwarts School by decree. The rest of the staff (except Filch) saw her as an interloper, an outsider who had invaded the school. Real world history is littered with this kind of dispute. In 1209 Oxford University was in a disagreement with the City of Oxford, England and decided to move the school. Yes, the entire school. It packed up and moved to Cambridge and founded that university there. The City of Oxford soon relented and asked them to come back. The strength of the university on the medieval economies were so great that Oxford had to agree to pay the university a large sum of money every year that followed. That practice lasted uninterrupted for almost 800 years. When it comes down to a dispute between an educational institution versus a civil government it's almost guaranteed that even Phineas would have seen Umbridge the same way as the rest of the school and thus would've refused to see her appointment as Headmistress as legitimate. Mr Norrell 12:03, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
Another random user here, not registered but I still think Slytherin. Mostly because Phineas Nigellus, though sympathetic with the pure blooded superiority ideas, did still seem to respect Dumbledore and I think someone like him would reject Umbridge on a personal level anyway, as she was such a fool going along with the 'close your eyes and pretend Voldemort isn't alive' approach. This, along with the castle not accepting Umbridge as Headmistress, might mean he didn't consider her the school's real head. Also, depending on which time period he was from, Phineas Nigellus could consider women inferior to men anyway because they were in the time he lived. So he might only consider the Headmasters of Hogwarts important and disregard all the Headmistresses.
Umbridge could, very well have not gone to Hogwarts, but another wizarding school somewhere else in the world...
This reader is not sure why the idea of Umbridge as 'dark Ravenclaw' is dismissed out of had at the beginning of this section. She is obsessed with order and rules, as would befit a Ravenclaw. While she hides her true intentions under a veneer of kindness which leads many to think she is Hufflepuff, she is extremely smart and cunning. No other teacher could bend the entire castle to their will while still sticking to the letter of the law. In fact she is so smart that the only person who can pull one over on her is Hermione who would certainly have been in Ravenclaw if her brazen, unapologetic disregard for the rules when it is necessary hadn't made Hermione more of a Gryffindor. Umbridge, at least to me, will always be the embodiment of Amoral Ravenclaw. She sticks to the rules and makes her own rules without regard for moral consequences which is why she appears evil. I think her saccharine nature and kitty motif office is a misdiretion to make you think she is 'evil Hufflepuff', as all of the DAtDA's teachers are not quite what they seem. I think the biggest clue is when she screams at Harry, Hermione and the centaurs 'I WILL have order!' This seems to scream Ravenclaw.