Forum:Elder Wand Plot Holes

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The Elder Wand was said to be the "unbeatable wand." It was also said that if the elder wand is taken from its owner by someone, it becomes rightfully theirs to use. Draco Malfoy was the true owner of the Elder Wand, yet when Harry disarmed Draco, he disarmed Draco's normal wand. Harry never actually took the Elder Wand at all.

The wand doesnt have to be involved in the "duel" in order to pass ownership. We learned that when Antioch was killed in his sleep and the wand passed to his killer. When he beat draco he became the new holder and since voldemort had not beaten him yet in the great hall, because the fight in the forbidden forest was his plan and allowed the wand to seemingly work on him. So when Voldemort used it in the great hall, Harry didnt intend to lose and the wand could not harm its current master. --Dr Kevorkian 15:25, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Also, there were only a few ways to destroy Horcruxes, and Aveda Kedarva was never mentioned as being one of them. You'd think that Dumbledore would have known that the Killing Curse would take care of a Horcrux. Yet Voldemort used it on Harry, killing his own Horcrux.

1) The Elder Wand was never unbeatable. That was just something that got exaggerated with the passing down of the legend. If it really was "unbeatable", but could only be mastered by defeating its previous owner, it never would have been handed down to begin with.

The Elder Wand itself is unbeatable, but that does not make its OWNER unbeatable. The example given in The Tale of the Three Brothers is the elder brother losing the wand (and his life) when he is drunk and asleep. Dumbledore is the only one who is ever said to have dueled the owner of the Elder Wand and won, but we never learn how this feat was accomplished, and Dumbledore being a very tricky wizard, we can be sure that it was accomplished without a test of wand vs. wand magical strength. DavidWallis 05:35, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

2) The Elder Wand's loyalty is to strength alone. If its master is EVER defeated or overpowered, the wand switches loyalties. Harry mentions when he duels Voldemort: "Does the wand in your hand know its last master was Disarmed? Because if it does... I am the true master of the Elder Wand."

3) Avada Kadavra apparently works on LIVING Horcruxes, but it's never stated it would work on the inanimate ones.

Avada Kadavra works to destroy the piece of Voldemort's soul that is attached to Harry, but Harry is not a normal Horcrux because the normal Horcrux spells were never invoked. In addition, by the time Voldemort uses Avada Kadavra on Harry in the Forbidden Forest, Voldemort has created a double tie between his life and Harry's via the blood taken from him to recreate Voldemort's body. The Avada Kadavra curse destroys the Voldemort attachment to Harry's scar because that is the only part of Harry that is vulnerable at this point. (Harry himself cannot die at Voldemort's hand because of the blood tie.) Most of the power of the curse rebounds and sends Voldemort to Kings Cross station along with Harry. They both revive, but now Harry is whole and protected, but Voldemort is not. DavidWallis 05:35, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Nick O'Demus 01:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

But it is mentioned that Horcruxes are meant to be in inanimate things only. Potter and Nagini was a mistake. It was unintentional. We can just conclude your third law is implied and understoon though never mentioned as you said. The elder wand is called unbeatable in the right person's hand. but then again it cannot pass down from hand to hand if it is not beatable. I do think there are other implications here as well. If a first year student hand the wand does it make him/her the best??--Morsmordree 09:15, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

It's never said that Horcruxes are inanimate things only. In Half-Blood Prince, Dumbledore only says that it's inadviseable to make living things into Horcruxes, as they can think and move for themselves. Harry was uninententional, but Nagini was made deliberately. - Nick O'Demus 09:25, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Harry: "The snake? You can use animals as Horcruxes?"

Dumbledore: "Well, it is inadvisable to do so, because to confide a part of your soul to something that can think and move for itself is obviously a very risky business."

— HBP, ch. 23, p.506

I think the Elder Wand was just an extremely powerful wand, but not unbeatable. So, if a first year student had the wand, he/she may be good, but probably not the best.Quidditch Lover ^{(My talk)(contribs)} 17:54, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

If someone really wanted to point out a plot hole involving the Elder Wand one needs to look no further than Harry being the "true master" of the wand, a wand that is known to change it's loyalties without having to have been there when it's "master" is defeated or disarmed, yet Harry seems completely content to become an Auror and spend the rest of his life going up against dark wizards again and again and again... Eventually one of those wizards will get lucky and the line of ownership would pass to them. Only by NOT fighting, by not giving anyone the chance to defeat him could Harry honor what Dumbledore tried to do, which was to end the power of the Elder Wand forever. Mr Norrell 07:33, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

• in reply to Mr Norrell's comment, yes Harry would be going up against dark wizards and fighting them, but as long as they never defeated him (he stopped them, arrested them etc) then the wants loyalty would remain with Harry. --Darth Jadious 11:26, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but it is exactly that "but" I was talking about. If he's the one that get's disarmed or otherwise beaten then the wand's loyalty may change. Harry has never been all powerful, nor did he even retain all the powers he had once Voldemort was killed. He was simply the wizard that was best suited by circumstance to go against one particular dark wizard, Voldemort. When he goes up against anyone else he doesn't have the same circumstances that have protected and supported him in the past. He'd be no better than any other Auror doing the same job. That possibility of defeat, combined with how Harry let all of Hogwarts, and presumably the rest of the wizarding world, know about the wand and it's fickle loyalty in the final showdown with Voldemort, allows for the chance for the Elder Wand to pass to someone else and make Dumbledore's plan all for not. Mr Norrell 08:48, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Then again, who cares if Harry could lose mastership of the wand? No one knows that the wand is now in Dumbledore's tomb. --  Seth Cooper  owl post! 12:08, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Outside of the Trio and the Headmasters' Portraits, yes, that's true. But as we've seen through the series, if a dark wizard wants something he'll find the ones who know about it and go after them. It seems as though that this is evolving into a general discussion in itself rather than the generalities of Elder Wand plot wholes, so I'll leave it with that. Mr Norrell 07:36, December 19, 2009 (UTC)